What academic course opens the path into the cyber
#1
Hello, i'm new here, and without much knowledge about it,
Now, I'm planning to start studying more about the cyber, more about the attacking, now i'm clueless what course I have to take to reach there, Software engineering or Computer Engineering?, since I do not know any other special course I can study in the university 
I would really like to hear any tips, more information about the topic, and especially from somebody very well experienced with it (in its world), if this is a good path to take (Since, I've always had a passion to study this subject, while I find it very boring to study mechanical engineering)
I know there are two types in the cyber warfare, the attacking and the defending, and I'm more interested into the attacking. 
Thanks to anybody who can help me, and guide me.

I probably should have used a larger community, but sometimes the small communities have the most experienced ones..
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#2
I can't tell you what courses to take, for what i know i taught myself. But if there is a general Computer Science course that would be a good place to start. Software engineering will teach you about software and knowing how software works and how it can be exploited is a step in the right direction i would say.
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#3
(12-26-2016, 04:19 PM)Vector Wrote: I can't tell you what courses to take, for what i know i taught myself. But if there is a general Computer Science course that would be a good place to start. Software engineering will teach you about software and knowing how software works and how it can be exploited is a step in the right direction i would say.

Thank you for your replay, I have 3 options to take, 
Computer science - I've been told its mostly theoretical, lots of math, physics, and mostly focusing on the theories behind the computers, and its mostly a path to discovering new theories, pretty much like physics (not sure in 100%, its mostly my own research) 
Software engineering- Focusing mostly on the  software, how to make it, learning how to handle projects and everything which focuses on making a software (like in machine engineering it is to make a machine),
while what I found from Computer Engineering - You study about the computer, partially theoretically, but not focusing on it, and software engineering up to the hardware,
with a little research I found out its very general about the computers

Now I know a guy who is an electrical and electronics engineer, and he told me this subject is so general, you can actually open the path to cyber with it, since you study coding there too.

if anybody knows, which subjects is more focusing on the cyber (computer engineering or software engineering), I find the Computer Science subject not very interesting as It seems to be mostly theoretical, but if anybody knows more about the subject, I would like to hear.
Thanks in advance.
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#4
(12-26-2016, 04:01 PM)miker2808 Wrote: Hello, i'm new here, and without much knowledge about it,
Now, I'm planning to start studying more about the cyber, more about the attacking, now i'm clueless what course I have to take to reach there, Software engineering or Computer Engineering?, since I do not know any other special course I can study in the university 

Are those the only two options you have to choose from? Have you thought about checking for university programmes specifically made for this? I know there is both majors/minors for both IT-Forensics, Offensive security and other interesting topics. You should check that as well.

Both software engineering and computer engineering will give you a broad choice in your career path. But there is more specialized university programmes as well, being less broad but more niched into just IT-security and such.

Another option you can consider is to get work experience with different technology companies with some smaller but short college education maybe? With industry experience combined with an IT-security Certification you can also get jobs. Of course there's some work needed for those Certs as well as money. But some I've heard had big value and recommended among people is OSCP or some of the Cisco certificates out there. Combine this with work/industry experience and self learning and you could get an IT-security job probably.

With the option above you probably want to build up a cool portfolio as well, maybe have a github and start doing some cool projects or websites. Something to show the employer, and even better if you're looking for security jobs you can start doing CTF challenges and add it to the portfolio. Some employers even have their own CTF challenges and puzzles in which you can get jobs thru.

But of course there's great benefits with a complete university education, giving more job security and leaving you open for many different jobs. Especially with engineering, there's a great deal of people who needs engineers right now. I'd choose engineering over computer science.

I cannot say for sure what you should pick. I have not studied software engineering, but it is my understanding that the security aspects of software engineering are more on the defensive side. Creating secure software, protected from buffer overflows and such, and learning different software engineering methologies.

I'm studying computer engineering myself, no secret there :p But can't tell you much about since I haven't studied much. The good stuff comes the last few years. But I can tell you for sure that I'm very certain you will get more math/physics in most if not all engineering programmes than if you'd choose plain computer science. 

But my advice to you is to check out some universities for both of these programmes and see if you can download the syllabys for each programme and get a list of courses offered. Then you can compare them and find what interests you the most.

On the software engineering part, maybe NO-OP our moderator could leave some input Smile He works in software engineering including security aspects of it.
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#5
Thank you for your replay, the reason I'm limited with subjects is because i'm taking a path in the military, and I'll have to study before getting recruited, so I'll be able to serve in the military with this subject (something in israel..)
with a little research on the subject, there is a special course in there in which I study first degree in Software engineering and then Master's degree in Computer Engineering without the thesis, and this includes some subject about "Cyber Space Security"
If you think this is exactly what I'm looking for then I will take this course, but the fact I'm taking this course decreases a lot the chances I'll get accepted there, and even more the chances I won't survive the courses as I must always have an average score of 85/100 (So far, in the highschool I manage to get such scores, but the difficulty is of course not to compare) 
I have 3 options to choose, and I'll probably pick this one, (But I'll wait for your response, and for NO-OP to tell his opinion before I'll choose)
but then I'll have 2 other options, should I put Computer engineering as the second and Electrics&Electronics engineering as the last one?
(As my first plan was to choose something like this, but Computer engineering the first, then electrics, and last one Mechanical engineering because I already have the basic knowledge of mechanical engineering[And still,, I find it very boring])

I'll wait for your response, thanks in advance.
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#6
I'm not exactly in any of these programs, I'm actually majoring in Information Technology with a specialization in networking & IT security. The gist of it is that I design, build and configure computer networks to work as efficiently as I can possibly make them. I'm currently in my first year, pursuing my CCNA, and I'll likely study for my OSCP over the summer months. School is helping me learn a lot about networking, but the security stuff I have to teach myself.

With that said, that's my background. Now I go to a technology school, so I actually have friends in both computer engineering as well as computer science programs. From what I've seen, I definitely think that my programs better than both of the mentioned, but I say this with bias since I rep my school/program every day with pride.

For computer engineering, I don't know much about it, but it has a focus on how computers work and the actual electronic engineering aspect of things. Cool stuff, we need lots of engineers in this society.

For computer science, people seem to like that program, but I would mainly recommend this if you have an interest in mathematics, physics, and PROGRAMMING! Programming is a huge part of computer science, so if you want to be a programmer more than anything else, then consider pursuing this. (I'm actually bad at math, part of the reason I'm directly in IT dealing with networking)

I would personally choose the engineering program over the computer science one, but to each their own. I'm sure both are great programs. Ultimately, it's up to you to learn what you want to learn either way. Do what you love.
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#7
(12-27-2016, 04:18 PM)Cypher Wrote: I'm not exactly in any of these programs, I'm actually majoring in Information Technology with a specialization in networking & IT security. The gist of it is that I design, build and configure computer networks to work as efficiently as I can possibly make them. I'm currently in my first year, pursuing my CCNA, and I'll likely study for my OSCP over the summer months. School is helping me learn a lot about networking, but the security stuff I have to teach myself.

With that said, that's my background. Now I go to a technology school, so I actually have friends in both computer engineering as well as computer science programs. From what I've seen, I definitely think that my programs better than both of the mentioned, but I say this with bias since I rep my school/program every day with pride.

For computer engineering, I don't know much about it, but it has a focus on how computers work and the actual electronic engineering aspect of things. Cool stuff, we need lots of engineers in this society.

For computer science, people seem to like that program, but I would mainly recommend this if you have an interest in mathematics, physics, and PROGRAMMING! Programming is a huge part of computer science, so if you want to be a programmer more than anything else, then consider pursuing this. (I'm actually bad at math, part of the reason I'm directly in IT dealing with networking)

I would personally choose the engineering program over the computer science one, but to each their own. I'm sure both are great programs. Ultimately, it's up to you to learn what you want to learn either way. Do what you love.
Well in my high school we have this subject not sure if it is exactly this subject, its called ICT there, and pretty much the same thing you explained, making a network, I wanted to join this subject but it was full (and of course, after a year, my subject was more than full, while their had lack of students.. :/) so this option is unavailable for me, now I found this subject not very interesting, since what they were trying to do was making a network for companies, they didn't study yet any programming languages (they should be studying Perl, and PHP I believe) but it'll begin only in the college (this is why I found it useless anyway to participate)
but then I heard a good story about this subject, that this subject will focuse on the defensive side of the cyber (protecting information, but they won't do anything about gathering information, and this is the opposite I want to do, this is why I'm looking for something general, so it'll open the path into this world, but to be with enough information so I'll be actually able to get there,)

Now I'm thinking to take the option of studying Software engineering and a second degree in Computer Engineering (without the thesis) with the Cyber Space Security lecures (clue less what its going to be about.. clueless about anything..  )

For conclusion: I'm waiting for NO-OP to give out his opinion as Insider stated I should do, before I actually fill the papers 

PS: I find this forum and excellent choice to ask questions if I get stuck somewhere (and luckily this forum will help me to get excellent scores in the degree Smile ) 

Thanks in advance
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#8
Any related degree will open up doors. Be it IT, CompSci, Engineering. It doesn't need to be Security related.

But a degree alone won't get you into Security. Not even close. You need to demonstrate an aptitude for it, and how you show that aptitude can come in many different ways. This can be through obtaining certifications like OSCP. This can be through finding/publishing vulnerabilities. This can be through writing security related software, etc.

What it comes down to, don't do a degree and expect to walk into a job. Even if it's a security related degree. You need to demonstrate that you can think outside the box. Security isn't a field that is fixed. You don't learn something once and apply it in the same manner forever. You need to apply lateral thinking. take old concepts and re-apply them in new situations. develop new concepts. etc. If you can't demonstrate this to an employer, they won't hire you. regardless of your degree.
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#9
Hello, i'm new here, and without much knowledge about it,
Now, I'm planning to start studying more about the cyber, more about the attacking, now i'm clueless what course I have to take to reach there, Software engineering or Computer Engineering?, since I do not know any other special course I can study in the university

Welcome to the community Miker!

Just for starters, since sarcasm is hard to tell on the internet, please never call it "the cyber" it's on par with "the facebook" and "the Googles". But between Software Engineering or Computer Engineering I can't say I have no real academic background since I'm self taught. But if you have an interest in security learn web stacks(LAMP) and then learn C between these two things you should get a big enough understanding about the code involved to start figuring out how to break things. You can also check out my Guide to General Hacking to figure out some different techniques and disciplines. https://greysec.net/showthread.php?tid=178
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#10
(12-28-2016, 06:13 AM)NO-OP Wrote: Hello, i'm new here, and without much knowledge about it,
Now, I'm planning to start studying more about the cyber, more about the attacking, now i'm clueless what course I have to take to reach there, Software engineering or Computer Engineering?, since I do not know any other special course I can study in the university

Welcome to the community Miker!

Just for starters, since sarcasm is hard to tell on the internet, please never call it "the cyber" it's on par with "the facebook" and "the Googles".  But between Software Engineering or Computer Engineering I can't say I have no real academic background since I'm self taught.  But if you have an interest in security learn web stacks(LAMP) and then learn C between these two things you should get a big enough understanding about the code involved to start figuring out how to break things.  You can also check out my Guide to General Hacking to figure out some different techniques and disciplines.  https://greysec.net/showthread.php?tid=178
Well, thank you for this guide, I will sure check it out, 
Sadly I havn't found anyone yet to tell me which course to take, or at least if one course is more general 
Well, about the reason why I really want to take this path, is because I enjoy riddles, and when companies release such challanges, it feels like a riddle, and I have a great passion to no matter what do my best and spend enough hours to solve it.. pretty much the only subject I can really spend a lot of time on and enjoy it.
Now I understand that this "security" subject is mostly self taught, not much of a problem, I managed to teach myself math (which should be pretty much harder [because its boring.. and challanging]) 

Thank you all very much, Probably i'll take this special course as top priority (Software engineering first degree and computer engineering second degree (without thesis)) and most likely It'll offer me a work in the military as a security person [I hope the offensive side] and slowly I'll gain more and more experience..
Thank you all very much (again) Looking forward to share what I'll be studying and share problems in case I'll get stuck somewhere (Pretty much you'll be my secret tool, compared to other students..) 
If everything will go as planned I'll start studying this degree next year (until then, I'll finish everything I got to do with highschool, and also will prepare myself to this subject) 


Thanks again.
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